TB Infection Control
How long are MDR-TB patients infectious onEFFECTIVE therapy?"
Started by Alexandru Buga on 19 Mar 2013
First of all I want to thank for this webinar training especially for Prof.Edward Nardell.
Working as Infection Control specialist in TB hospital I am responsable to train HCWs in this way. As I understood "the patient who start treatment early (based on DST) they become uninfectious almost imediatelly (24 hours)". Is it right ?
If yes, should the HCWs who are working in the department where patients receiving TB treatment to take care of IC measures if "The 98% reduction in infectiousness to sentinel guinea pigs that Richard Riley reported was due to less than 24 hrs"?
Just to concretize before patients start treatment (in our hospital) they are tested by Xpert.
Thank you one more time.
Keywords: Personal Respiratory Protection Publications & Research

Edward Nardell, MD
Dear Alexandru,
expand commentWhat I presented this morning is definitely NOT what most national
guidelines or textbooks recommend for either drug susceptible or drug
resistant TB. For drug susceptible TB, most authorities recommend the "two
week rule". This was first stated in a review paper by Annik Roullion and
colleagues based a series of household transmission studies in the 70's.
However, as I shared with you during the webinair, there is good
experimental evidence of markedly reduced infectiousness on the very day
that EFFECTIVE treatment starts. I am referring to the classic guinea pig
studies of Dr. Richard Riley. Here is a quote from Dr. Riley from the paper
(Am Rev Respir Disease 1962:85; 511-525):
Riley concluded: “The treated patients were *admitted to the ward at the
time treatment was initiated and were generally removed before the sputum
became completely negative*. Hence the decrease in infectiousness preceded
the elimination of the organisms from the sputum, indicating that the
effect was prompt as well as striking.” Regarding drug resistant TB, he
was more cautious because of the smaller numbers of patients and guinea pig
infections, concluding only that *“Drug therapy appeared to be effective
in reducing the infectivity of patients ...
1:21 AM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Dick Menzies
Dear Ed
When can we expect to read these exciting results – in a peer reviewed journal??
8:40 AM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
Still major editing going on, but will submit well before the end of April.
When they will be published is another story not under our control!
9:26 AM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Alexandru Buga
Dear Ed thank you for answer,
but how it could be explained that "...standard MDR treatment, if effective, essentially stops transmission before sputum conversion." ? If I understand right even if M.tuberculosis exist in sputum they are not infect people? Ok microscopicaly: the explanation could be that we see on microscope the died mycobacteria but if culture is positive: this means that mycobacteria are in life and if this mycobacteria go to alveoli they will trriger something ?!
11:43 AM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
Thanks for this further question. The explanation that Riley and
expand commentcolleagues came up with is that antibiotics are concentrated in respiratory
droplets as they evaporate into droplet nuclei, causing their concentration
to escalate dramatically and possibly rendering organisms in the air
non-infectious even though in sputum samples, where there is no stress from
evaporation or concentration of antibiotics, organisms may continue to
grow. Remember that in culture we do everything possible to support growth
whereas the human host or guinea pig has host defenses doing whatever
possible to resist infection. There are major differences between airborne
organisms and those in culture. The early household contact literature is
very clear on the "discordance" between infectiousness of patients and
their smear and culture status once on effective treatment - whereas smear
and culture predict infectiousness when not on effective treatment. We
already incorporate this thinking in the "two week rule" for drug
susceptible TB. Even though it usually takes 2 months on average for
sputum culture to become negative on effective treatment, we declare them
non-infectious at 2 weeks, when many will still have positive sputum smears
and cultures. The two week rule was based on epidemiological studies that
were not sensitive enough ...
12:27 PM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Alexandru Buga
Dear Ed,
Thank you for clear explanation on GHD online. I am thinking that of course usually we help that Mycobacteria to grow and is diference between “vitro” and “vivo” - where is present the host defenses. But really we need more study’s for demonstration.
7:00 PM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
I agree that more data is needed and we, and hopefully others, have those
studies planned.
7:31 PM, 20 Mar 2013 | Permalink
S. Mehtar
We have got data from 2008. We are going to print shortly. Makes interesting reading.
Shaheen
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
1:05 AM, 21 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
Data on what, Shaheen? Can you elaborate?
1:12 AM, 21 Mar 2013 | Permalink
S. Mehtar
Sorry Ed. We have been following up Occupationally Acquired TB since 2008 and some of our findings are quite interesting. That was the data I was referring to.
Cheers
S
Prof Shaheen Mehtar
Buitengewoon Professor (Waarnemende Hoof: UIPC) / Extraordinary Professor (Acting Head: UIPC)
[cid:image001.png@01CE271F.8C9BC010]
Eenheid vir Infeksievoorkoming en Beheer / Unit for Infection Prevention and Control
Fakulteit Geneeskunde en Gesondheidswetenskappe /
Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
Universiteit Stellenbosch University
Posbus / PO Box 19063; Francie van Zijl Rylaan / Drive
TYGERBERG 7505
Suid-Afrika / South Africa
Tel: +27 21 938-5054; Faks / fax: +27 21 931-5065
e-pos / e-mail: <mailto:>
Visit our website at www.sun.ac.za/uipc<http://www.sun.ac.za/uipc>
11:06 AM, 22 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Regina Loprang
Dear Dr. Nardell,
I am very interested with "cough surveillance" method that you offered. Could you please give me the link of the resources for me to study?
And in congregate setting like prisons where we have lack of resources, no isolation room, if we found MDR TB patient but we need time to move the patient to PMDT Hospital site (around 1 - 2 weeks), which means effective treatment cannot be started right away, what kind of TB IC methode would you suggest to lower the risk of further transmission ?
Thank you
Regina Loprang
7:58 PM, 24 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
I am in South Africa with limited internet access. Cough
surveillance.iswidely used and you should have no trouble finding
references. Can someone help Regina?
4:59 PM, 25 Mar 2013 | Permalink
Sheela Shenoi
Here is one that we have just published.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iuatld/pha/2013/00000003/00000001/art00014
There are numerous others. If you send your email address to <mailto:>, I can send you the articles.
Best,
Sheela
2:35 PM, 26 Mar 2013 | Permalink
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