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RE: [TB Infection Control] How long are MDR-TB patients infectious onEFFECTIVE therapy?
Started by shobha luxmi on 15 Jun 2012
It means no precautions are required to prevent transmission as soon as one start ATT.
Dr. Shobha
ID specialist
Karachi,Pakistan
Edward Nardell, MD
Please be very very clear on what I have said. The existing data for drug
susceptible TB is very, very clear that infectiousness ends well before the
smear and culture turns negative. Riley's guinea pig data indicates that
patients started on therapy the same day as they entered his experimental
facility were 98% less infectious than those who did not start therapy.
However, treatment must be effective treatment - not just any treatment.
So you cannot say that no precautions are necessary as soon as you start
ATT (antituberculosis therapy) unless you know the drug susceptibility
pattern of the patient's isolate, which is only possible with rapid
diagnostics. If you do not know the drug susceptibility pattern, the
patient could be drug resistant, not on EFFECTIVE therapy, and may be
infectious, so the usual precautions are necessary. I will provide this
data on line here as soon as I am situated in a place with reliable email -
am travelling.
Edward Nardell, MD
7:23 AM, 15 Jun 2012 | Permalink
S. Mehtar
Totally agree. Precautions remain in place for two weeks for sensitive TB in S Africa but less so in the UK. MDR-TB should have airborne precautions during hospital admission unless cleared.
Shaheen
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
8:05 AM, 15 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
Dear Shaheen,
expand commentYou are reflecting current, widely held policy. I am suggesting that there
has been excellent evidence for more that 50 years that infectiousness of
drug susceptible patients ceases much sooner than 2 weeks, regardless of
smear or culture status - on EFFECTIVE therapy. There is some evidence
that the same holds for MDR-TB, and I will elaborate on this shortly.
Although sputum culture colony counts decrease rapidly on effective
therapy (early bacteriocidal activity), they do not convert to negative
until 2 months on average. Therefore, we as a community in applying the
"two week rule" we have long accepted the notion that sputum smear is not a
reliable indicator of infectiousness. That is, many patients are smear
positive when they are considered non-infectious. It is true that we also
say that patients should be clinically responding to treatment with
decreasing cough, etc, but these are simply additional indicators of
EFFECTIVE therapy. Now, with the advent of rapid DSTs, we have the
opportunity to avoid INEFFECTIVE therapy from the beginning, allowing us to
have greater certainty (when rapid DSTs are available) that patients are
on effective therapy.
I will post a more complete version of my argument shortly.
Ed Nardell ...
2:39 PM, 16 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
In response to several comments asking for more information on my assertion
expand commentthat the EFFECTIVE treatment of drug susceptible TB, and probably drug
resistant TB, occurs almost immediately, I am posting a summary of a talk
given at a TB IC subcommittee meeting in Berlin, November, 2010. I have
edited it to remove data that might be considered a barrier to publishing
this work in a peer-reviewed journal.
Some have asked how rapid is rapid? All I can say is that, as you will
see, Richard Riley started patients on therapy the same day that they
entered his experimental ward and we have done the same. The 98% reduction
in infectiousness to sentinel guinea pigs that Riley reported was not due
to 2 wks or even 2 days treatment, but somewhat less than 24 hrs, conceding
that there is a time lag in the process of transmission. That is, even
untreated patients may not infect guinea pigs on their first day of
exposure. The point is that the effect is rapid and profound, to
paraphrase Riley - quoted in the text, below. My apologies for the length
of this post.
To reiterate one more time, I am not saying that no ...
3:26 PM, 16 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Elizabete Nunes
colleagues of other problems related to the infectiousness of MDR-TB patients is the malabsorption syndromes are so frequent in HIV + patients and keeping their infectivity for longer. Given that the monitoring of all these aspects is fundamenrtal with DOT
9:38 AM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
Thanks Elizabeth for raising that issue. About 60+% of our MDR
patients are co-infected with HIV at the Mpumalanga MDR Treatment
Center in South Africa, but still effective therapy in a cohort of 27
mostly smear positive, coughing, mostly cavitary MDR-TB cases appeared
to almost completely suppress transmission to guinea pigs at the AIR
Facilty over a 3 month period (1 gp infected). Additional confirmatory
studies are needed and planned for the near future.
Ed
9:59 AM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Dr Shanta Ghatak
I may be grossly wrong but can we think about inhalation therapy as well
for the infectiousness to become less? Has it been tried ?
Thanks
6:39 PM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Edward Nardell, MD
You are right on, Dr. Ghatak. We are about to begin a trial in South
Africa of a dry-powder inhaled antibiotic specifically to reduce TB
transmission, including a novel drug never used for TB that has
anti-mycobacterial activity and may be effective in reducing XDR
transmission.
There is one study in the literature showing that inhaled
aminoglycosides resulted in sputum conversion in chronic patients, but
they did not have the ability to measure transmission that we have
with the guinea pig model. Presumably, any effective inhaled drug
should help, although for drug susceptible TB, systemic therapy is
amazingly fast.
Ed Nardell, MD
6:48 PM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Dr Shanta Ghatak
Can we have a control subgroup of COPD patients as well? More and more
deaths are occuring in adult males who have healed TB lesions but have not
survived the lung damage by COPD .
And there is no national level control program for COPD anywhere? The WHO
also has not been very proactive about COPDs and in truth with all the
environmental /pollution /air particulate screenings .....bottomlin
eremains they are dying from COPD. Just a thought .....
Thanks !
7:53 PM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Dr Shanta Ghatak
and inhalation would be faster in reducing the infectiousness and spread of
the disease.
thats what matters more ?
7:57 PM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
Dr Shanta Ghatak
transmissibility of XDR is less ? because of the morphological fragility ?
Is this based on hard evidence? This was being discussed by a lab expert ?
How much truth is there it is hard to verify but it is evident that
without injudicious use of drugs, XDR wouldn't have emerged this way.
blame game is on DOT , government , private sector ...OTC sales....but
only POOR DRUG USAGE has given us the XDR
8:08 PM, 27 Jun 2012 | Permalink
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